The Barometer Online

If the bottle has as harmful components in it as this article makes it seem, the FDA would not approve of the items for the aid of consumption. Lots of things are harmful to humans if used for long periods of time or if used in the wrong way. Wouldn't the FDA pull this product off the shelves if it was so harmful, to prevent us from using it to hold our drinks?

Jill, ANS student

The FDA is simply overwhelmed and understaffed. They take a long, long time to list anything. And, it's a very political issue. Some folks have a lot of money riding on the outcome of any FDA decision and those people tend to swamp the FDA with their own studies showing that everything is OK. Tobacco companies did this to excess. Also, they are having a struggle with opening up to the newer information because it is not as simple.The older way of looking at toxics, which is called LD-50, Lethal Dose to 50% of the test subjects, has been the only measure of toxicity for such a long time, like, the entire history of toxicology up until recently as 20 years ago. It's easy to understand, dead is dead.
But, something that causes genetic and endocrine damage is a bit more subtle. Reading the book, Our Stolen Future, can provide as much solid literature references as you would care to look at in one lifetime.

Linda

i've been drinking out of these since i was born. my parents drank out of them since they first came out. i think if they were harmful, i'd be seeing some of the effects.

and yes, any plastic over time fatigues and starts to leach. thats why you REPLACE EQUIPMENT PERIODICALLY.

douglas, student mech engr
osu

Jill and Douglas I notice are students and therefore most likely not having babies right now. These endocrine disruptors are having negative effects on fertility, birth defects and learning disorders in young children. I hope you don't someday "see" the effects of these in having to go through years of infertility or having children with learning disabilities. And anyone with the idea that the FDA actually does a good job of protecting us needs to look a little deeper at their history. They are currently about to be sued over the fact that they have let the tuna lobby keep tuna off the list of fish pregnant and nursing mothers need to avoid due to mercury contamination.

Lorrie, Childbirth educator, midwife's asst.
MD

i think this is all a bunch of crap. i've worked with BPA and the only way to get this stuff to degrade is to heat it to 350C (over 500F) or mix it with tetrahydrofuran or things of the like. and aging makes PC more stable and does not cause chemical degredation unless in the presence of one of the above named conditions. your bottles are fine.

ace, polymer science grad student
massachusetts

Listen, we're all going to die. Every single one of us is going to develop some ridiculous disease because quite frankly we're living too long. The answer is obvious, we must all move to cabins in the middle of the woods and make our meals from the trees and bushes that surround us. When we learn to live in harmony with the earth, and not utilize any of the devil's products such as synthetic drinking bottles, then and only then will we defeat disease. We must cast aside our Babylonian ways, and embrace the 13th Century (BC).

PS~ If you can't pick up on the sarcasm here, go drink from a Nalgene bottle.

Vince, Student
Rutgers University

although...eating mcdonalds and driving your car to work are about a million times worse for your
health

onetime

Thank you for passing this information on...always good to be an informed consumer!

Tracy
Corvallis, Or

probably used a corosive agent that created an unknown chemical. BPA direct feeding experiments do not indicate the concentration. Remember "the dose makes the poison". As far as hormone disruption. that too is mostly crap. the research who published the definative work was sanctioned for fudging the data and withdrew the paper from Science. As to "Our stolen future" or should I say "Our swollen Future." the author is a Rachel Carson wantobe. By the way, if you actually read "Silent Spring" you realize that Carson was dead wrong on all points. Finally publications in Env. Health Perspectives. This journal is a depository for EPA no-threshold risk crap.

If you are worried about bottled water, check the arsenic level. This you allow some of you to lose a little more sleep.

The Nuch, Research Scientist
Rutgers - NJ

Depite all the negative feedback, the sad reality stares us all in the face like a deer in the headlights if you are honest with yourself. I am involved with studies in ecotoxicology and part of my work on my thesis is heavily involved in the estrogenetic mimicking effects of things like plastics and some metalloids in water, etc. Plastics do in fact infiltrate our lives in every aspect and the effects are now being noticed as per the comment on the LC 50. We are looking much closer because we are finding these differences in gene expression due to the estrogenetic mimicking effects of these toxicants. Since the dawning age of plastics in 1942 the information supports the damage and changes physiologically, etc within sensitive animals like amphibians, reptiles, humans etc. If you are not convinced, look up the info on the alligator population studies in Florida, these separate communities are without males. Extinction is being studied in the making! All due to people turning their backs on the cold hard facts at hand. Stop the denial and help figure out a solution for the problem at hand oh mighty scientists! It is in you to do right.

Helper of gaia, scientist ousa
ontario canada

The article was clear from the start that A HARSH DETERGENT caused the plastic to leach BPA. It seems very simple to avoid using harsh detergents on plastic, although I wish it were more explicit about the HARSH detergent that had been used. Is dish soap harsh? Is dishwasher soap harsh? Personally, diluted dish soap seems fine, but perhaps someone else could shed more light on that idea.

Chris, mech eng
Boulder CO

I don't think that I'm going to lost sleep over this. It sounds as though the only risk involved comes after prolonged use of corrosive cleaning agents on the bottle. Personally, I don't use Comet cleanser on my Nalgene; a little soap and elbow grease with a sponge works for me. It shouldn't surprise anyone that any synthetic plastic can become toxic if corroded. The article was particularly vague (or silent) on the issue of the amount of corrosion that is necessary for it to become dangerous--probably because it is easier to be alarmist than realistic.

Kevin, contractor
Boulder, CO

Well written article. Like Linda says, the FDA can't be trusted to act quickly and be unbiased with $millions coming at them in lobby money. this is the perfect case to exercise the precautionary principle. I agree that we're all going to die of something and can't live in caves, but i think skeptics (particularly students) would think a little more beyond themselves if they had deformed children. they'd want to know the causes, and many would likely demand action.

Brandon
Oregon

This is good news. As an attorney, I'm already looking into suing the plastic industry. After all, we took out the tobacco industry for peddling cancer sticks to people with no self control and now taking on the fast food industry on behalf of fat people too lazy to exercise and who, again, lack self control to not stuff their face. The only defense against us attorneys is to get rid of technology and live one with nature. Of course, you would end up dying at age 40, unless you get some medieval disease from lack of clean water, modern medicine and cheap energy. In which case, you would die sooner and more painfully. If plastic, which has in one way or another, touched everything we drank or ate for the past 40 years, shouldn't there have been more infant mortality or birth defeat instead of less?

Mr Gaia Sir, Attorney
Maryland

In response to Jills post, I'd just like to say that there are so many other harmful things out there that are being sold in cleaning chemicals, even in our grocery stores that are approved by the FDA that prove harmful to our health. We are all just ignorant to that, and think that if the FDA approves, then it must be okay. That is not the case. We need to stop thinking what everyone else is telling us to think especially in our government agencies, and get the facts, and decide for ourselves.

crystal, Student
Utah
crybnk@yahoo.com

unless you are planning to have children, this probably is just a topic to toss around in your head- since the only assertions are that it may cause miscarriage and birth defect. there may be a decrease over all in these areas due to modern science, but the only way this is possible is to recognize the underlayiing causes and make appropriate changes.

being in a profession that deals with many young women, i see a great number of healthy, active women who do "all the right things" and still cannot carry a pregnancy to full term, if they can get pregnant at all. these women are looking for any possible contributors that will enable them to understand why this is happening to them. (for you men- this could end up happening to someone you love someday- your lover or you sister)

this may be alarmist, but i for one, wash my nalgenes with bleach to disinfect them. my concern is not for MY health, it is more for the health of any future relationship i may have that may someday dream of parenting.

sure, i may not want to cut everything i eat or drink out of my diet in order to ensure a future of health and longevity, but i am glad to be informed of things so that i may make these decisions myself. the more informed i am the less likely i am to be enraged by things "out of my control".

hopefully more studies will be done to find out the affects of any plastics that we come into contact with in our daily lives so that we can all make more informed decisions. FDA approved or not.



janis

I certainly agree with crystal. The FDA not only is not God but is a grossly industry-and-drug-biased bureaucracy (some might say cartel). In fact, the FDA through its regulatory powers is at least complacent in the deaths of millions. See the eye-opening articles at: http://www.mercola.com/2003/jan/15/doctors_drugs.htm

Certainly is hard to come by in issues like this. Meantime, it is best to use glass or the higher grades of platics when possible.

Dave, Mech Engineer
Gig Harbor
summ8@comcast.net

you people have waaaay too much time on your hands.

stef

Wash your nalgene?! Wow, thats weird, I didn't understand you were supposed to do that at all...at least I don't ever.

mike W, outdoor enthusiast
almostaveragemw@hotmail.com

Do your research- PET bottles don't even have DEHA as a raw material or an additive. Don't just lift the sentence from Sierra club. Check out snopes.com- the PET rumor has been floating around the web for a while.

Kathleen
kathleenruth@juno.com

You can avoid problems with this plastic by using Nalgene's less-pretty but presumably less deadly UVPE model.

Parker, Student
UO

I've done research on animal endothelial cells using nalgene bottles to "grow" these cells. This is a common practice in biology. One un-common thing I found is that if I washed the bottles with sterilized water before incubating my cells, fewer cells died and I could yield a greater quantity of antibody. In the same lab, this same experiment is also done without washing the tubes. Those experiments continue to yield less cells and less antibodies and also need live mouse cells to keep the endothelial cells alive.
I thought at the time that this was due to pthalates, but I never looked into it. So, perhaps if you use nalgene bottles, wash them in the beginning as well.

Ivy Merriot, teacher/scientist
Bozeman, MT
science@abaetern.com

I personally think that we should start a petition banning the use of Nalgene bottles. Hopefully the company that makes these will realize that they need to listen to the public.

Jill, Student
Rohnert Park
jill-mcculloch@excite.com

I had a partial mole triploidy miscarriage in January. This was my second miscarriage. Triploidy is apparently defined as the baby having 69 chromosomes instead of the usual 46. I've be drinking from Nalgene bottles for 12 years. Averaging at least 2 bottles a day. Are there any studies currently being done to rule out #7 plastics as being harmful. Is there anyone I should contact for an objective study?

Concerned, speech and language pathologist
CA

So: does anyone know a way to test for BPA in your water? Is there a simple test for the presence of BPA in your Nalgene Water Bottle? Hey ace the polymer science grad student from Massachusetts, how do you test for BPA in water?




Payne Mayker, Water Purification
Novato, CA

This article really caused me a great deal of dismay. Like many people, I have used nalgene bottles for a long time. In fact, I drank (and now drink) out of them constantly with each pregnancy. I am now pregnant with #3 and have, until this moment, refilled my bottle with ice water every morning and every night to take on my bike commute. And my two young sons drink out of it all the time. Funny how I have been skeptical of plastics, yet never counted nalgene bottles a part of this group.

wondering whether to toss my beloved bottles now (especially since I use old ones from 6 or 7 years ago),
alyne

alyne, researcher
denmark

It seems that Alyne & I are the only people to respond who have actually had kids. I have to admit, I have used Nalgene bottles for the last 12 years and my child is 3 now. She is healthy and strong (since the day she was born); I have never had a miscarriage AND I have never even thought to clean my Nalgenes with more than dish soap. I would be afraid to use bleach on anything I eat out of anyway...have you ever noticed that you can't easily rinse or wash bleach off your hands? I try to avoid harsh chemicals as much as possible. I'd like to know just how much leaching is detected from normal use of these bottles...

Laura, Real Estate
Charlotte, NC

A little sarcasm: Now that I believe it's unsafe, how do I recycle my bottle? Having read this, I can claim that quitting jogging may have actually had a *slight* health benefit...
I don't have a degree in endocrinology and I don't claim to understand the chemistry described here. It seems to me that many of the reactionary responses from people that are posted above underline the tragicomedy of our world: you can't get a large group of people to agree on much of anything.








Karst
Massachusetts

I'm researching since february 2003 in the toxicology of the plastic material told above (#7) or nalgene plastic. It appeared to be that the results are unclear. When using a strong cleaning material to it, it might leach but normal dishwasher doesn't affect it in the same level. The mice case it's just a stupid example, 'cause i'm sure that scientific used hard chemicals to wash the cage and bottles.
So my suggestion,... stop smoking and keep drinking from your nalgenes!

Hirvimies
Helsinki
mamminsyoja@luukku.com

I would not count on the FDA to protect us from things like this that are harmful to our health. The FDA has been catering to industry insiders for decades and is likely to do so even more under the second Bush administration. FDA rules already allow all sorts of additives to be put in foods without listing anything on labels, and if you want to look at something similar, the USDA has not exactly been honest about the possibility of mad cow disease in the US -- the only reason they pulled sick cows off the food market is so that now they have to be destroyed and private ranchers can't independently test them for diseases like Mad Cow. They even ordered one private ranch not to test for Mad Cow Disease in a private lab.... Industry has more influence over our regulators, because it has more concentrated interests, more concentrated command structures, and thus fewer barriers to internal cooperation than the vast number of independent consumers, who just don't have the time to look into everything these agencies do or the same ability to mobilize political action. If we want to do something about these health risks, it will have to be on our own, by refusing to buy products like these. The industry DOES listen to sales figures, so that always does the trick.

Daniel Burton, Computer Consultant
Oakland, CA

I used a nalgene water bottle to take fresh lemonade with me to work every day while I was having morning sickness. My pregnancy ended at 12 weeks with a miscarriage. This is after 3 normal pregnancies. I cannot help but wonder...and I have thrown my bottles away and will never purchase more.

Danika
Delaware

I have a child missing her 15th chromosome. It is called Angelman Syndrome and is characterized by severe mental retardation, seizures, sleep disorder, etc. Could it have been from the "7 polycarbonate water jugs we have? We had five healthy children before we started drinking out of #7 plastic.Anyone who wants normal, healthy children will do whatever it takes to put the odds in their favor...So for us, it means getting rid of the questionable plastics in our home.

Also, when there are big bucks on the line, don't count on the FDA or anyone else to interfere with pulling those things off the market...

D.L.Seigel

The finding of this study were refuted by a professor from U of Arizona. Check out these findings.

http://wildcat.arizona.edu/papers/98/14/01_1.html

Jeannine, student
NY

This is the latest research on BPA, compliments of http://www.bisphenol-a.org. The Risk to Humans is very low. http://www.bisphenol-a.org/whatsNew/20041003Kamrin.html

Shirelle, student
NY

Being a grad student in polymer science wisdom does not make...A previous poster from the Polymer Science & Engineering Department, University of Massachusetts, Amherst said that this plastic is safe.

Check out their website:
http://www.umass.edu/iled/connect.html

The polymer research done at UMASS is financed by the PLASTICS INDUSTRY.
Here is an excerpt taken from their website:
"ILED Benefits Corporate Partners

* Communicates corporate trends and strategic needs to campus/community audience
* Manages relationship: provides advocacy, communication and stewardship
* Promotes exchange of talent and intellectual property, resulting in recruiting and R&D competitive edge
* Works for mutual satisfaction and gain: win-win relationship
UMass Amherst and the "Knowledge Corridor" Region in which it is situated is a key resource for companies interested in improving and expanding business opportunities. The best way for industry to explore collaborative opportunities is to work with internal advocates who know the campus and the area well. The Office of Industry Liaison and Economic Development (ILED) is that advocate. An office of the UMass Vice Provost for Research, ILED has the infrastructure in place to effectively connect industry to UMass programs, people and regional networks that can positively impact business objectives.

ILED's mission is to maximize the value of UMASS Amherst as a PARTNER TO INDUSTRY and as a contributor to an economically successful state and region. We do this by applying professional attention to the quality and productivity of relationships and initiatives that can benefit the university.
ILED promotes value-added PARTNERSHIPS BETWEEN INDUSTRY and UMass that yield opportunities for:

* Research Collaboration
* Workforce Development
* Recruitment
* Technology Development
* Education
* Brand Exposure

The result is dynamic, custom PARTNERSHIPS THAT BENEFIT INDUSTRY, the University, and its partners."

Thank you people for taking the time to read this far. It is important to understand that often times harmful industries use PUBLICLY FUNDED universities for their own private research. The university system cannot do independent research if major funding comes from private industry. Thisgross conflict of interest often results in skewed research in favor private industry at the cost of public health.

-Christopher
 


Christopher, Urban Permaculturist
Oakland, CA
chondriosapien@yahoo.com

Oh well, gotta die someday.

john stevens, tester
phx
asdlkfja@joty.net

Though I wish it were so, polycarbonate baby bottles have not "quietly disappeared" from the market. I recently surveyed a number of baby bottle manufacturers and found that the following brands are still made of polycarbonate: Avent, Dr. Brown's, Evenflo clear, First Years, Gerber clear, Playtex Vent Aire, Sassy and TupperCare. Parents should avoid all clear bottles, unless the manufacturer says it's not made of polycarbonate.

Kathleen Schuler, Environmental Scientist
Minneapolis, MN
kschuler@iatp.org

I am planning to sue. I have figured this all along ever since these companies started making such huge profits. Clearly, by limiting our lifespan through modern implements they can control profits and keep humans "cycling" through like animals.

Franz Heich, Cheese Industries
Viborg

www.boycottnalgene.com
Check out the above website for even more reason to switch to glass or steel water bottles. Not only does this company manufacture bottles that are dangerous to all of us, but they also make laboratory equipment for many purposes, including the testing and torture of animals. I personally prefer that my money go elsewhere.

Lucy, Ecologist
Portland, OR

if these bottles r so harmful then y no effects r seen among people ,even in the long run.y these bottles hav been approved


isha, student
india

I'm kind of appalled at so many people's disbelief that the FDA could let something harmful stay on the market. There is a lot of money and politics involved, the FDA is far from infallible. Novel chemicals or their degradation products can act in unpredictable ways to wreak havoc on a variety of systems in the body. I would seriously stay away from plastics for food and water usage. Another terrible hormone mimic is the chemical Vinclosalin commonly sprayed as a fungicide on grapes and berries. I would go organic for those, especially if you'd like to have kids with normal reproductive ability.

Doug, Biology Student
Pittsburgh

Check out SIGG bottles. It is what I switched to and I like them. They are aluminum with a water based coating on the inside to prevent the aluminum getting into the bottles contents.

Matthew M. Cline, Programmer
San Jose

This is staggering:

A recent survey by vom Saal and Welshons (Environmental Research 100 (1): 50-76 JAN 2006) summarized the findings of 109 published studies of the effects of BPA. Of the 119 independent government funded studies, 92% reported that BPA causes harm. However, ALL of the 11 industry-funded studies found BPA to be perfectly safe.

This is concrete evidence of the incredible bias incorporated in industry-funded studies!

Shirelle referenced a website (http://www.bisphenol-a.org) which states that the risk to humans is very low. This website was put up by a group funded entirely by plastic manufacturing companies (check it out yourself..).

There is no incentive for government-funded reports to find that BPA causes harm, yet certain companies will lose millions if the FDA puts restrictions on BPA.

Use your head. Some people have agendas (who knew?).

Alex D, Chemist
University of Toronto
alex.dickson@utoronto.ca

I just recently had a miscarriage and before I was pregnant, and while pregnant, I drank out of my Nalgene bottles all day long (refilling them 2 or 3 times a day). While I can't say that Nalgene bottles caused my miscarriage, I'm certainly not drinking out of them any longer.

Lisa

Not entirely true. I was just researching the "water bottle issue" when I saw on SNOPES that the "single-use" PET #1 bottles leaching carcinogenic DEHA is FALSE.
You can read it here

http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/petbottles.asp

Another good read is here

http://www.jhsph.edu/PublicHealthNews/articles/Halden_dioxins.html

If you're still reading, you'll find these good links too:

http://www.grist.org/advice/ask/2005/01/10/umbra-bottles2/

http://www.grist.org/advice/ask/2004/08/02/umbra-bottles/

Geoff, Engineer
Virginia

I've been drinking out of nalgene bottles for the last 27years. I have two beautiful sons. Nothing wrong with two of them at all.
I think that even though I'm pro science, Someone else besides Mrs. Hunt needs to do a lot more research on the projects that involve large amounts of disease. I don't think that all the avenues on BPA have been crossed yet.
I work in plastics and there is alot more harmful plastics out there that go into your body that no one knows about.
Maybe someone should spend more time on the unknowns than something that has existed since from 1949 - present.

Whomoever said eating McDonalds is a million times worse for your health has never had a fresh Big Mac with hot fries. The positive physchological effects of that meal alone outweigh the consequences.

I understand that this probably isn't going to kill me but somehow I cannot drink out of this Nalgene bottle that I have anymore.

Ok, so you could throw out your nalgene. Or, heres an idea: Keep drinking out of it, use birth ontrol, and adopt some poor kid who would otherwise end up in an orphanage(or the foster care system). Now how's that foe a good solution?